“For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God’s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.” Romans 1:26-32 (ESV).

And the ever-famous-
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.” Leviticus 18:22 (ESV).

Let me make the following observations:

1. The stated purpose/mission of Erskine Theological Seminary (ETS) is to train candidates for the Christian ministry. ETS is also the seminary of the ARP Church, and, as such, ETS is evangelical and Reformed. The matriculation of non-Christians for professional religious training is a violation of the mission of the seminary. This violation has created considerable difficulty for ETS in the seminary’s relationship with the ATS (the accrediting association).

2. With regard to the ordination of women, are you aware that the ARP Church does not ordain women to the office of Pastor?

3. I have never written that I “hate” Muslims or Jews. Nor have I written that I “hate” gays. I believe those are your assumptions.

4. With regard to what the Bible says about homosexuality, you are incorrect. The Bible most clearly identifies homosexuality as a sin.

By the way, tell us a little about yourself. You don’t seem to know much about the ARP Church, Erskine, or evangelical Christianity.

Regards,

Charles W. Wilson
ARPTalk

_Charles

Mr. Stephans has helped to clarify my point above. It seems to me that Rev. Miller is going in the opposite direction of what is needed to turn EC into a quality Christian institution.

My point is that we need people to start behaving as Christians ought to do when it comes to EC RATHER THAN DOING THE politically expedient thing or acting with indifference. I am simply appalled at what Rev. Wilson reported in #7 above:
”Mr. Matt Miller, the Pastor of the Greenville ARP Church, did the most surprising thing of the day when he introduced the Erskine administration and BOT into the debate by reading an e-mail from President David Norman and Chairman Joe Patrick to the presbytery. Essentially, the communiqué stated that the matter of the EC Foundation was an Erskine matter and informed the presbytery that they were dealing with it. At the time, no one seemed to notice that what Mr. Miller did was a violation of presbytery’s protocol and “out of order.” That is, the audacity of the action was such that everyone was caught by surprise. Likewise, at the time, no one seemed to notice that Erskine matters took precedence over and trumped Second Presbytery in the oversight of its own house. In fact, Erskine (the tail of the dog) wagged the dog (the church). If anything demonstrated that Second Presbytery has become “The Star Wars’ Cantina Presbytery,” that did!
”

I have stated before on this blog that ARP ministers need to repent of thier neglect of EC. Praise the Lord for Rev. Wilson’s desire to do things right around EC.

Mr. Curtis, if you can blast away (as I read your history of posts) why can’t I have my thoughts. Stay on track.

Jim,
Mr. Smith is wrestling with this question, “Why in the world would a minister in the ARP try to halt the progress of holding Erskine’s feet to the fire[?]” His ideas of how it could happen is that Rev. Miller was either not understanding, deceived, or ignorant.

Your response sounds exactly like those who have been defending the plaintiffs and the EC board members (which according to some of your other comments, you disagree with). Whether anyone agrees with his action at presbytery or not, it was a public action and it impacts other people. How is objecting to, speaking about, or trying to understand such actions out of line with scripture?

While it may be true (again I don’t know the man) that Rev. Miller is all those good things, you are the first to talk about his character, and you bring it in to deflate criticism of his actions. “He is a good man, so everything he does is good. Therefore it is a sin for anyone to question his actions” is basically the argument style.

It is possible to question a man’s actions without disparaging the man.

Your question to me (I think): “Shouldn’t the presbytery instruct Erskine?”

My answer: the memorial that was on the floor of Second Presbytery was not about Erskine; rather, the issue was about Elders in Second Presbytery. The e-mail that Mr. Miller read that brought Erskine into the debate was a cheeky intrusion that was also extraneous.

For the record: unlike Mr. Curtis, I think your questions to Mr. Miller are appropriate. Mr. Miller walked into the debate on the floor of Second Presbytery with his head up and his eyes open.

I will leave the rest of your comments to you, Mr. Miller, and Mr. Curtis.

Regards,

Chuck Wilson
ARPTalk

I must protest. You do not know Matt Miller, yet raise individual issues against the man. That’s not keeping with Scripture, my friend. Matt Miller is a great Godly man, a minister who is faithful to the Word, and, from what I hear, a fantastic father and husband (and these I do not doubt).

Rev. Miller has his reasons for doing what he did, and without him giving them to you I sincerely doubt you can make the claims against him you have. I suggest, as a brother in Christ, that you repent of this and seek his forgiveness.

Respectfully,
James Curtis

Shouldn’t the presbytery instruct Erskine? Also, why in the world would a minister in the ARP try to halt the progress of holding Erskine’s feet to the fire. It is obvious that ‘Matt Miller’ either has zero common sense, simps the Erskine cool-aid, or is super ingnorant to what goes on at EC. My goodness, if Matt Miller only knew how ridiculous EC was in the late 90s early 00s he’d repent!

Matt Miller, please understand that we need christians in support of EC. if you are a christian please support your church!
BS

As per your request, below is a copy of the e-mail that was sent from Dr. Norman and Mr. Patrick to Second Presbytery and read by Mr. Matt Miller. The document is copied from the Minutes of Second Presbytery.

Having read the e-mail a couple of times, I now see that it is far more intrusive than I thought. When I heard it read, I missed just how invasive and arrogant it actually is. In a word, the tail tells the dog where to go and what to do, and then the dog does!

Well, I have many more thoughts on this matter; however, I would first like to see your thoughts and the thoughts of others.

Regards,

Chuck Wilson
ARPTalk
____________________________

Matt Miller read a joint statement from Joe Patrick, chairman of the Board, and David Norman, President of Erskine College and Seminary.

Dear Presbyters,

Thank you for a brief moment to express some personal thoughts about the memorial before you from our own perspective as Chair of the Erskine Board of Trustees and President of Erskine College and Theological Seminary. It is important for this body to recognize that based on the effects we can see of the past few years, it is not in the best interests of Erskine for real or perceived concerns surrounding this institution, or its current or even former employees, to be hastily brought into public investigation. We want to broadly advocate sincere and patient efforts to understand the individuals and issues involved and for time to be given for the appropriate Erskine group to work towards reconciliation and improvement where possible. In this case, the Erskine Board has already initiated a process of dialoguing constructively with the EC Foundation and its board members and how they can be supportive of the Erskine mission.

You should also know that we, based on our direct involvement with Erskine in various forms, can say that the men mentioned in this memorial have together given or brought about an unquantifiable amount of benefit to Erskine through their time, talent and resources over their lifetime. We are sure they are not perfect and neither are Erskine board members or ARP presbyters. Please note that we are in no way
commenting on the content of the EC Foundation website but that we, together with the Erskine Board, do intend to try to understand more about what is stated there, as well as how our differences, perceived or real might be resolved.

The Erskine Board needs time and a more constructive environment than this memorial creates to continue diligently to work towards a stronger Erskine. Please pray for our work and extend your support to Erskine in every way possible.

Your servants in Christ,

Joe Patrick David Norman