Comments on: Turn the Page http://www.arptalk.org/2011/09/13/turn-the-page/ Just another WordPress weblog Thu, 17 May 2012 23:24:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Charles W. Wilson http://www.arptalk.org/2011/09/13/turn-the-page/#comment-6429 Charles W. Wilson Sat, 01 Oct 2011 17:59:06 +0000 http://www.arptalk.org/?p=1498#comment-6429 Dear Mr. Gary Freeze, Thank you for your comments. However, I’m most perplexed by them. Mr. Kevin Metz and I were engaged in a very civil conversation. He treated me with respect and I returned that respect. He was clear and blunt and also respectful. I returned the kindness. I have no idea what you mean by the Calvin and Arminian issues. I haven’t opened up a debate on those issues in ARPTalk – ever! I find it interesting that you identify me as one of the “interloppers” [sic]. I don’t know how old you are, but I may have been an ARP longer than you are old. Sorry I gave you such heartburn; however, I do respect you for standing up for a former student. As a former teacher, I admire that. Nevertheless, I was kind to Kevin. What not? He was very kind to me! Regards, Chuck Wilson ARPTalk Dear Mr. Gary Freeze,

Thank you for your comments. However, I’m most perplexed by them. Mr. Kevin Metz and I were engaged in a very civil conversation. He treated me with respect and I returned that respect. He was clear and blunt and also respectful. I returned the kindness.

I have no idea what you mean by the Calvin and Arminian issues. I haven’t opened up a debate on those issues in ARPTalk – ever!

I find it interesting that you identify me as one of the “interloppers” [sic]. I don’t know how old you are, but I may have been an ARP longer than you are old.

Sorry I gave you such heartburn; however, I do respect you for standing up for a former student. As a former teacher, I admire that. Nevertheless, I was kind to Kevin. What not? He was very kind to me!

Regards,

Chuck Wilson
ARPTalk

]]> By: gary r freeze http://www.arptalk.org/2011/09/13/turn-the-page/#comment-6399 gary r freeze Thu, 29 Sep 2011 20:35:17 +0000 http://www.arptalk.org/?p=1498#comment-6399 Chuck: as one of Kevin's former EC professors, and someone who was raised an arp, let me help him. the fact is you care more for calvin then you do christ. the curt and unchristian snipping that you do about people like john carson and others who come out of that long tradition of moderation that is part of the scottish discourse is about as far away from the spirit of bonclarken as anyone i have ever encountered. i wish my faithful synodical mother was still alive to call out your mccarthyesque approach to charity and tell you shame. that is the whole problem with the interloppers who have taken over what was once an excellent denomination and turned into their bully pulpit for their own anticharity agenda. what's the difference? there are arminian christians, there have been since the days of geneva, and there is no evidence, none whatsoever, divine or otherwise, that suggests that they are less likely to go to heaven then you are. you can huff and puff all you want, but it is not irresistible grace people like kevin question, it is the resistance to your attitudes. it is one thing to be as liberal as bill is and react as he has to the transformation of erskine, it is another for the likes of you to claim you are really arp talk. this is as far from the presbyterianism of my grandfather and father, both new perth elders, as one can get. the lord implied that you can know the evil when you hear the hissing and boy did you hiss when responding to the real arp talk of ms. grier holmes. you too should define your terms. all this listening to what the bible says is as much the debate between the two sides--the real twoedged sword--as anything else. that is what we really wanted to do at ec, teach believers that they could find strength in the tensioning of their faith. your iron age christianity needs a touch of the steel of your own impurities. gary freeze Chuck: as one of Kevin’s former EC professors, and someone who was raised an arp, let me help him. the fact is you care more for calvin then you do christ. the curt and unchristian snipping that you do about people like john carson and others who come out of that long tradition of moderation that is part of the scottish discourse is about as far away from the spirit of bonclarken as anyone i have ever encountered. i wish my faithful synodical mother was still alive to call out your mccarthyesque approach to charity and tell you shame. that is the whole problem with the interloppers who have taken over what was once an excellent denomination and turned into their bully pulpit for their own anticharity agenda. what’s the difference? there are arminian christians, there have been since the days of geneva, and there is no evidence, none whatsoever, divine or otherwise, that suggests that they are less likely to go to heaven then you are. you can huff and puff all you want, but it is not irresistible grace people like kevin question, it is the resistance to your attitudes. it is one thing to be as liberal as bill is and react as he has to the transformation of erskine, it is another for the likes of you to claim you are really arp talk. this is as far from the presbyterianism of my grandfather and father, both new perth elders, as one can get. the lord implied that you can know the evil when you hear the hissing and boy did you hiss when responding to the real arp talk of ms. grier holmes. you too should define your terms. all this listening to what the bible says is as much the debate between the two sides–the real twoedged sword–as anything else. that is what we really wanted to do at ec, teach believers that they could find strength in the tensioning of their faith. your iron age christianity needs a touch of the steel of your own impurities.
gary freeze

]]> By: Charles W. Wilson http://www.arptalk.org/2011/09/13/turn-the-page/#comment-6378 Charles W. Wilson Sun, 25 Sep 2011 22:03:06 +0000 http://www.arptalk.org/?p=1498#comment-6378 Dear Ms. Sue Clayton, Thank your for your comments. Thank you for bringing the discussion back to the focus of my article. I think this is your first time to make comments on ARPTalk. If it is, let me welcome you. If you respond again, would you mind introducing yourself a bit? Of course, you’re correct in what you write, Sue. The “tenure union” does not give a professor permission to do and say whatever he/she wants. There are boundaries. It is difficult to “fire” a tenured professor; however, a “tenured professor” can be “fired” for CAUSE and according to procedure. Dr. Crenshaw was terminated because of what he DID; not because of what he TAUGHT in a classroom. That is very clear from the information that is coming out of Due West. There is a reason that the Faculty Executive Committee is supporting President Norman’s actions. The brouhaha by the AFE and AFIE alums has developed because Dr. Crenshaw is their “champion,” and they cannot accept the fact that he did something that was worthy of being “fired.” They have chosen to be ignorant of policy and procedure. The issue is emotional for them. There is no/little reasoning with them. Their minds are made up; don’t confuse them with the facts! Regards, Chuck Wilson ARPTalk Dear Ms. Sue Clayton,

Thank your for your comments. Thank you for bringing the discussion back to the focus of my article.

I think this is your first time to make comments on ARPTalk. If it is, let me welcome you. If you respond again, would you mind introducing yourself a bit?

Of course, you’re correct in what you write, Sue. The “tenure union” does not give a professor permission to do and say whatever he/she wants. There are boundaries. It is difficult to “fire” a tenured professor; however, a “tenured professor” can be “fired” for CAUSE and according to procedure. Dr. Crenshaw was terminated because of what he DID; not because of what he TAUGHT in a classroom. That is very clear from the information that is coming out of Due West. There is a reason that the Faculty Executive Committee is supporting President Norman’s actions.

The brouhaha by the AFE and AFIE alums has developed because Dr. Crenshaw is their “champion,” and they cannot accept the fact that he did something that was worthy of being “fired.” They have chosen to be ignorant of policy and procedure. The issue is emotional for them. There is no/little reasoning with them. Their minds are made up; don’t confuse them with the facts!

Regards,

Chuck Wilson
ARPTalk

]]> By: Sue Clayton http://www.arptalk.org/2011/09/13/turn-the-page/#comment-6377 Sue Clayton Sun, 25 Sep 2011 20:51:44 +0000 http://www.arptalk.org/?p=1498#comment-6377 Mr. Wilson, I only recently became aware of this whole debacle, but I would like to comment on your last response to Mr. Metz. Even if we disregard all the reasons Erskine exists, Dr Crenshaw is guilty of insubordinatin. No one can expect to continue to hold a job when he is actively sabotaging the reputation of the company he works for. An engineer at GM would be removed if proven he was recommending to his family and friends to stay away from GM products; If an employee where I work is found to be encouraging our customers to boycott our business, they would be shown the door. Why is Dr Crenshaw the exception? Because this thing called "tenure" makes him exempt from the basic laws of employment? I think not. Everyone knows Erskine is a conservative Christian school and that is one of the decision points for considering Erskine. No one is forcing a student or parent to consider Erskine, and certainly the cost of an Erskine education isn't causing anyone to say "I don't agree with the Christian principles of Erskine, but it's the only school I can afford." Whether we agree with the Christian principles or not, the school must stay true to its selling points, which includes these Christian principles. Mr. Wilson,
I only recently became aware of this whole debacle, but I would like to comment on your last response to Mr. Metz. Even if we disregard all the reasons Erskine exists, Dr Crenshaw is guilty of insubordinatin. No one can expect to continue to hold a job when he is actively sabotaging the reputation of the company he works for. An engineer at GM would be removed if proven he was recommending to his family and friends to stay away from GM products; If an employee where I work is found to be encouraging our customers to boycott our business, they would be shown the door. Why is Dr Crenshaw the exception? Because this thing called “tenure” makes him exempt from the basic laws of employment? I think not. Everyone knows Erskine is a conservative Christian school and that is one of the decision points for considering Erskine. No one is forcing a student or parent to consider Erskine, and certainly the cost of an Erskine education isn’t causing anyone to say “I don’t agree with the Christian principles of Erskine, but it’s the only school I can afford.” Whether we agree with the Christian principles or not, the school must stay true to its selling points, which includes these Christian principles.

]]> By: Charles W. Wilson http://www.arptalk.org/2011/09/13/turn-the-page/#comment-6373 Charles W. Wilson Sat, 24 Sep 2011 15:57:02 +0000 http://www.arptalk.org/?p=1498#comment-6373 Dear Mr. Kevin Metz, I hope that the reason that you haven’t responded to my last post is because you are busy. That happens, doesn’t it? I hope you have not decided that our chats are unproductive. If you have decided not to continue or conversation, I want to thank you for your kindness and time. Sir, it was a pleasure. If Kevin has finished his conversation with me, does anyone else wish to continue it? Regards, Chuck Wilson ARPTalk Dear Mr. Kevin Metz,

I hope that the reason that you haven’t responded to my last post is because you are busy. That happens, doesn’t it? I hope you have not decided that our chats are unproductive.

If you have decided not to continue or conversation, I want to thank you for your kindness and time. Sir, it was a pleasure.

If Kevin has finished his conversation with me, does anyone else wish to continue it?

Regards,

Chuck Wilson
ARPTalk

]]> By: Charles W. Wilson http://www.arptalk.org/2011/09/13/turn-the-page/#comment-6331 Charles W. Wilson Wed, 21 Sep 2011 00:34:45 +0000 http://www.arptalk.org/?p=1498#comment-6331 Dear Mr. Kevin Metz, Please accept my apology for being so tardy in getting back to our conversation. I had some wood that needed splitting, and today was splitting day. I hope there is enough left of me to think. Your comments muddy the waters a bit. The issues of polygamy, inspiration, and inerrancy can be held for another day; what we’re dealing with is far more basic. My point is that the Bible is authoritative in that it is in the Bible that we are told both what to belie and how to live. What we believe and how we live are not things that we invent. We get them from God through the Bible. You did not say that exactly; however, you did imply it. Therefore, I’m going to assume that we are agreed. Let me know if we’re not. Since I am going to address a goodly number of points, I am going to number my points. Maybe that will help us keep up with my thoughts. 1. Erskine is not a state college/university, nor is Erskine a private college/university. Erskine is a private Christian college that is an agency of the ARP Church and is tasked in two areas: the academic and the religious. The language that is often used is combining high academic standards with faithful Christian teaching and moral integrity. Well, that’s the ideal. 2. Now, at this point, I’m going to leave the academic issue alone. I have no problem acknowledge that Erskine’s academic reputation is well known. We can moan and groan about “academic standing” and other such matters; however, at the end of the day, Erskine does good education. Let us wish for better. As a bit of an elitist, I would advocate for more rigorous standards. This, however, has little to contribute to our discussion. Therefore, as to your question regarding the Carnegie Liberal Arts classification, I’m going to let it rest – if it’s okay with you. 3. A follow up question to the above: at the end of the day, if Erskine does the best education in the world and fails to tell the student about Jesus, has Erskine been successful? I think Jesus had something to say about gaining the world and losing one’s soul! 4. One of the obviously things that many of the alums ignore is that Erskine IS an agency of the ARP Church. All agencies of the ARP Church are tasked to represent and promote the faith and morality of the ARP Church. In point of fact, all that the ARP Church is asking of Erskine is to be the ARP Church in higher education. That past administrations have failed in this does not negate the mission. It only spotlights the failure and faithlessness of those administrations. 5. Kevin, I’m puzzled by the canard of the Bible College. I don’t get it. I don’t want Erskine to be a Bible College, but what is this fear? Have you ever been on the campus of one of those Bible Colleges like Toccoa Falls College, Columbia International University, or Moody? Those people do excellent education. They have high academic and moral standards. They are prospering and don’t lack for students. What’s the fear? It seems unreasonable to me. If you compete with them, you may find that they can hold their own with you – yes, and some can’t. You will also find out that they know how to deal with “the real world.” 6. In the last 40 years, would you give Erskine high marks in representing, teaching, and advancing the Christian religion and life? How is it that so many of the alums seem to “hate” the evangelical Christian faith of the ARP Church? From their conversations on FB and elsewhere, it seems that is what they learned at Erskine. I can assure you that was not the goal of the ARP Church for Erskine. You asked me how an administrator or prof could represent his/her faith in the classroom. I will use a personal illustration from Clemson University. Several years ago I took a grad class in counseling. The prof was an evangelical Christian. Several times during the course, the prof would say, “Guys, you know who I am. On so many of these things we’re talking about all I’m doing is describing disorders and telling you how to put band aids on them. The religion of Jesus Christ has some help for you if you’re willing to explore . . .” That at a state school and no one seemed traumatized! Is that too much to ask of profs at Erskine? Can they even do what that man did? 7. Kevin, I agree with you. Morality can’t be imposed; however, in the environment of a Christian college moral standards can be established and expected. No one is required to attend Erskine. It’s a choice. Interestingly, those institutions that have high moral expectations for their students, usually get what they expect. I think we can agree that Erskine’s record in this area is not sterling. BTW, it’s the same with academic standards! 8. Kevin, you asked about challenging beliefs. I have no problem with challenging; I have a problem with attaching beliefs at a school that exists to promote the Christian faith. Why? Because it violates the mission. It’s a breech of trust. Simply put, it’s immoral. The prof who does such a thing has broken his/her word. The prof wasn’t made to be there. Why would the prof want to be there unless the prof has a mission of destruction. Forgive me it this seems very black and white. It is! Once again, I’m long. Let me encourage you to ask specific questions so that I don’t ramble. The problem is not you; it’s me. Regards, Chuck Wilson ARPTalk Dear Mr. Kevin Metz,

Please accept my apology for being so tardy in getting back to our conversation. I had some wood that needed splitting, and today was splitting day. I hope there is enough left of me to think.

Your comments muddy the waters a bit. The issues of polygamy, inspiration, and inerrancy can be held for another day; what we’re dealing with is far more basic.

My point is that the Bible is authoritative in that it is in the Bible that we are told both what to belie and how to live. What we believe and how we live are not things that we invent. We get them from God through the Bible. You did not say that exactly; however, you did imply it. Therefore, I’m going to assume that we are agreed. Let me know if we’re not.

Since I am going to address a goodly number of points, I am going to number my points. Maybe that will help us keep up with my thoughts.

1. Erskine is not a state college/university, nor is Erskine a private college/university. Erskine is a private Christian college that is an agency of the ARP Church and is tasked in two areas: the academic and the religious. The language that is often used is combining high academic standards with faithful Christian teaching and moral integrity. Well, that’s the ideal.

2. Now, at this point, I’m going to leave the academic issue alone. I have no problem acknowledge that Erskine’s academic reputation is well known. We can moan and groan about “academic standing” and other such matters; however, at the end of the day, Erskine does good education. Let us wish for better. As a bit of an elitist, I would advocate for more rigorous standards. This, however, has little to contribute to our discussion. Therefore, as to your question regarding the Carnegie Liberal Arts classification, I’m going to let it rest – if it’s okay with you.

3. A follow up question to the above: at the end of the day, if Erskine does the best education in the world and fails to tell the student about Jesus, has Erskine been successful? I think Jesus had something to say about gaining the world and losing one’s soul!

4. One of the obviously things that many of the alums ignore is that Erskine IS an agency of the ARP Church. All agencies of the ARP Church are tasked to represent and promote the faith and morality of the ARP Church. In point of fact, all that the ARP Church is asking of Erskine is to be the ARP Church in higher education. That past administrations have failed in this does not negate the mission. It only spotlights the failure and faithlessness of those administrations.

5. Kevin, I’m puzzled by the canard of the Bible College. I don’t get it. I don’t want Erskine to be a Bible College, but what is this fear? Have you ever been on the campus of one of those Bible Colleges like Toccoa Falls College, Columbia International University, or Moody? Those people do excellent education. They have high academic and moral standards. They are prospering and don’t lack for students. What’s the fear? It seems unreasonable to me. If you compete with them, you may find that they can hold their own with you – yes, and some can’t. You will also find out that they know how to deal with “the real world.”

6. In the last 40 years, would you give Erskine high marks in representing, teaching, and advancing the Christian religion and life? How is it that so many of the alums seem to “hate” the evangelical Christian faith of the ARP Church? From their conversations on FB and elsewhere, it seems that is what they learned at Erskine. I can assure you that was not the goal of the ARP Church for Erskine.

You asked me how an administrator or prof could represent his/her faith in the classroom. I will use a personal illustration from Clemson University. Several years ago I took a grad class in counseling. The prof was an evangelical Christian. Several times during the course, the prof would say, “Guys, you know who I am. On so many of these things we’re talking about all I’m doing is describing disorders and telling you how to put band aids on them. The religion of Jesus Christ has some help for you if you’re willing to explore . . .” That at a state school and no one seemed traumatized! Is that too much to ask of profs at Erskine? Can they even do what that man did?

7. Kevin, I agree with you. Morality can’t be imposed; however, in the environment of a Christian college moral standards can be established and expected. No one is required to attend Erskine. It’s a choice. Interestingly, those institutions that have high moral expectations for their students, usually get what they expect. I think we can agree that Erskine’s record in this area is not sterling. BTW, it’s the same with academic standards!

8. Kevin, you asked about challenging beliefs. I have no problem with challenging; I have a problem with attaching beliefs at a school that exists to promote the Christian faith. Why? Because it violates the mission. It’s a breech of trust. Simply put, it’s immoral. The prof who does such a thing has broken his/her word. The prof wasn’t made to be there. Why would the prof want to be there unless the prof has a mission of destruction. Forgive me it this seems very black and white. It is!

Once again, I’m long. Let me encourage you to ask specific questions so that I don’t ramble. The problem is not you; it’s me.

Regards,

Chuck Wilson
ARPTalk

]]> By: Kevin Metz http://www.arptalk.org/2011/09/13/turn-the-page/#comment-6312 Kevin Metz Tue, 20 Sep 2011 00:11:19 +0000 http://www.arptalk.org/?p=1498#comment-6312 Dr. Wilson, I do not think that we have a free pass to live just any old way and do what we please. That would constitute not pleasing God. I do, however, believe that all Christians don't necessarily have to believe exactly the same things, i.e.,inerrancy (depending on how it was defined). To me, the Bible was inspired by God and written by man over a long, long time period. There are things in the Old Testament, such as having many wives which didn't fit with New Testament teachings. However, I don't have an issue with those things. If read in the proper context, I suppose those differences could be explained by societal/cultural changes. That we do agree on certain important issues is important...that Christ is the Messiah, that he is the only way to God. I did things at Erskine that I should not have done as a Christian. At the very least, I know I was not always a good witness for God. My argument is not that Erskine should allow immorality to flourish, but at the same time, its rules should not make it become like a Bible college or have so many rules and restrictions that it won't be able to uphold the excellence in academics part of its mission. I don't think morals can be dictated. I think having convocations and sermons is fine and in accordance with the standards of the school and the church. I am also not an advocate of having every professor believe exactly the same thing. If someone out and out attacks a person's faith and ridicules/degrades the individual, then I don't think he/she should be allowed to teach at EC. However, to debate and question religious matters is important to my way of thinking. Enough now. I will await your response-especially the one about the president's role. I know you addressed this earlier, but you didn't get specific. What would you have professors and the president actually do and say? How would their behavior differ from what professors do at other schools and at EC now? Dr. Wilson,

I do not think that we have a free pass to live just any old way and do what we please. That would constitute not pleasing God. I do, however, believe that all Christians don’t necessarily have to believe exactly the same things, i.e.,inerrancy (depending on how it was defined). To me, the Bible was inspired by God and written by man over a long, long time period. There are things in the Old Testament, such as having many wives which didn’t fit with New Testament teachings. However, I don’t have an issue with those things. If read in the proper context, I suppose those differences could be explained by societal/cultural changes. That we do agree on certain important issues is important…that Christ is the Messiah, that he is the only way to God.

I did things at Erskine that I should not have done as a Christian. At the very least, I know I was not always a good witness for God.

My argument is not that Erskine should allow immorality to flourish, but at the same time, its rules should not make it become like a Bible college or have so many rules and restrictions that it won’t be able to uphold the excellence in academics part of its mission. I don’t think morals can be dictated. I think having convocations and sermons is fine and in accordance with the standards of the school and the church. I am also not an advocate of having every professor believe exactly the same thing. If someone out and out attacks a person’s faith and ridicules/degrades the individual, then I don’t think he/she should be allowed to teach at EC. However, to debate and question religious matters is important to my way of thinking.

Enough now. I will await your response-especially the one about the president’s role. I know you addressed this earlier, but you didn’t get specific. What would you have professors and the president actually do and say? How would their behavior differ from what professors do at other schools and at EC now?

]]> By: Charles W. Wilson http://www.arptalk.org/2011/09/13/turn-the-page/#comment-6311 Charles W. Wilson Mon, 19 Sep 2011 22:46:37 +0000 http://www.arptalk.org/?p=1498#comment-6311 Dear Mr. Kevin Metz, Thank you, brother. Well struck!! Remember, I am a professional theologian. I don’t want to make this complicated; however, I have one more question. The person who has put his/her faith in Jesus Christ as Savior, as that person lives out his/her faith under the sovereignty of King Jesus, are the various commandments (Biblical term) and directives/instructions (my language) of the Bible obligatory to that person too? Jesus had a great deal to say that is not contained in the “first and greatest” conversation. Paul and the other writers of the NT had a great deal to say about living “Christianly.” I would also hasten to say that much of the OT is still obligatory (for example, the Ten Commandments). So, are we agreed? Kevin, I’m not being pedantic. There are many today who want a truncated Jesus. That is, they want a Jesus who makes no demands of their lives. In theological terms, they want an antinomian form of Christianity which is FALSE Christian faith. Another way of putting it is: they live like hell and expect Jesus to give them a pass because they have believed (whatever that means). Let me also add that the expectation here is not perfection but an obedient and faithful living out of one faith. I haven’t forgotten what you have written to me. In our next chat I will be able to get to what you have asked. Whatever your reply, I will be able to respond. I pray that you agree with me. Regards, Chuck Wilson ARPTalk Dear Mr. Kevin Metz,

Thank you, brother. Well struck!!

Remember, I am a professional theologian. I don’t want to make this complicated; however, I have one more question.

The person who has put his/her faith in Jesus Christ as Savior, as that person lives out his/her faith under the sovereignty of King Jesus, are the various commandments (Biblical term) and directives/instructions (my language) of the Bible obligatory to that person too? Jesus had a great deal to say that is not contained in the “first and greatest” conversation. Paul and the other writers of the NT had a great deal to say about living “Christianly.” I would also hasten to say that much of the OT is still obligatory (for example, the Ten Commandments). So, are we agreed?

Kevin, I’m not being pedantic. There are many today who want a truncated Jesus. That is, they want a Jesus who makes no demands of their lives. In theological terms, they want an antinomian form of Christianity which is FALSE Christian faith. Another way of putting it is: they live like hell and expect Jesus to give them a pass because they have believed (whatever that means). Let me also add that the expectation here is not perfection but an obedient and faithful living out of one faith.

I haven’t forgotten what you have written to me. In our next chat I will be able to get to what you have asked. Whatever your reply, I will be able to respond. I pray that you agree with me.

Regards,

Chuck Wilson
ARPTalk

]]> By: Kevin Metz http://www.arptalk.org/2011/09/13/turn-the-page/#comment-6308 Kevin Metz Mon, 19 Sep 2011 19:55:09 +0000 http://www.arptalk.org/?p=1498#comment-6308 Dr. Wilson, Sorry I failed to answer you question last time. I would define a Christian as someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as his/her Savior, and based on that decision, has a relationship with God. Christianity is about that relationship and the growth one experiences through life. I don't think there was anyone ever perfect, except Jesus, so I don't expect Christians to be perfect. This person would be led by the Holy Spirit to live a life that is pleasing to God. I recall Jesus telling one of the Pharisees that the two most important commandments were 1) To love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and 2) To love your neighbor as you love yourself (maybe not quoting verbatim). Therefore, I think if we want to live a Christian life, those two things are essential...all the other things we need to do will fall into place if we observe these two. Dr. Wilson,

Sorry I failed to answer you question last time. I would define a Christian as someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as his/her Savior, and based on that decision, has a relationship with God. Christianity is about that relationship and the growth one experiences through life. I don’t think there was anyone ever perfect, except Jesus, so I don’t expect Christians to be perfect. This person would be led by the Holy Spirit to live a life that is pleasing to God.

I recall Jesus telling one of the Pharisees that the two most important commandments were 1) To love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and 2) To love your neighbor as you love yourself (maybe not quoting verbatim). Therefore, I think if we want to live a Christian life, those two things are essential…all the other things we need to do will fall into place if we observe these two.

]]> By: Charles W. Wilson http://www.arptalk.org/2011/09/13/turn-the-page/#comment-6295 Charles W. Wilson Mon, 19 Sep 2011 01:23:59 +0000 http://www.arptalk.org/?p=1498#comment-6295 Dear Mr. Kevin Metz, Thank you for your comments. You have some very insightful points. However, before we can go much farther, we need to stop and return to my question about the definition of “Christian.” I gave mine. So, please, how do you define “Christian”? Our definitions are going to direct our discussion from this point. Regards, Chuck Wilson ARPTalk Dear Mr. Kevin Metz,

Thank you for your comments. You have some very insightful points. However, before we can go much farther, we need to stop and return to my question about the definition of “Christian.” I gave mine. So, please, how do you define “Christian”? Our definitions are going to direct our discussion from this point.

Regards,

Chuck Wilson
ARPTalk

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