A Day on the Alum’s Facebook Site: 3/30/2011

 

This article is a copy of the traffic on the so-called Alum’s Facebook Site on 3/30/2011. Perhaps the title of this article should be the following.

Chuck Wilson Was Right!

The SAFE Students Were Right!

The Moderator’s Commission Was Right!

The Snow Synod Was Right!

The Editor of ARPTalk does not need to make comments. The comments that follow speak loud enough!

A tip of the hat to Mrs. Janis Cunningham, Mr. Randy Harrison, and Mr. Daniel Wells!

The comments appear as they were posted on Facebook. The Editor has not attempted to note spelling and grammatical errors.


First Thread

Jay West

David Norman has denied Jay Herring, a seminary and long time ARP, tenure. Although Jay had been recommended by the Dean, executive VP, and the tenure committee, some unnamed individuals expressed to Dr. Norman privately that they questioned the process. So Dr. Norman rejected the tenure application. I cannnot surmise Dr. Norman’s reasons, but outside undue influence remains a problem. I have known Jay Herring for over twenty-five years and know him to be a man of deep faith with a passion for others. I can only imagine that some in the ARP denomination raised their heads because he voiced his interpretation of scripture during the recent court case between the college and ARP denomination. The underlying message here is to repress your voice even when convicted by Scripture. Is this what we want our college and seminary students to absorb?

Linda Young Price

The evil doers are still trying to capture their prize…total control of Erskine. Are we about to inaugurate a pawn for their power?

Jay West

Seems we already have

Abbey Veal

I’m afraid you’re right Linda. Norman has tasted the Kool-Aid and likes it. This proves that he won’t listen to his own staff and will be loyal to Chuck Wilson and his crowd. The Alumni are the losers here. Norman will quickly learn that the church will not bail out Erskine.

Linda Young Price

My heart is sick.


Second Thread

Daniel Wells

Alumni For Erskine – A Christian Liberal Arts College

Some people in this group noted how the “Pharisees” turned their backs on David Norman a couple of days ago. Just to give an update on this matter… Dr. Norman replied to Chuck’s open letter at ARPTalk in the comments section. Ironically, they seem to be on the same page now. (link)

Mary Lou Holmes

‎”Mere words” are still “mere words” according to Dr. Norman. God’s words are still God’s words. “inerrancy” sorry to say is not one of God’s words. No matter how precious to Wilson. No matter how he’s fought for 40 years to get it into the ARP vocabulary. It is still a newly minted doctrine of man.

Mary Lou Holmes

‎40 years of Wilson is a mere blip in the history of Erskine and the history of the ARP Church.

Mary Lou Holmes

It isn’t just this group noticing how Wilson behaves like a Pharisee. Search his site for the word “love.” He has never ever used it. Not even once to mean brotherly love. He only used it for Valentine’s Day to mean romantic love between a man and a woman who share the same glasses. Wilson doesn’t understand the God of the New Testament.

Mary Lou Holmes Wilson ought to be focused on the precious lamb of God. Not his own precious words.

William Crenshaw

Daniel — not much to Dr. Norman’s response. Isn’t it mostly a reprint of the first article on inerrancy? So what’s new?

P. Mark Wilson

It seems like Chuck Wilson and David Norman are bosom buddies. I would have hoped that the President of Erskine would not roll in the mud that Wilson flings. I think that public discourse with him is beneath his position as college president. Does anyone else share my concerns?

Abbey Veal

I’m afraid Dr. Norman has dipped his finger in the Kool-Aid.

Daniel Wells

Bill,

Do you really not think what Dr. Norman posted as a clarification is not significant? I can’t always tell the difference between when you are kidding and when you are doing “critical analysis of a text”.

I take the following comments by Dr. Norman to be a very clear expression of his position on Scripture and Inerrancy and the ARP interpretation of it:

Norman: “Do I believe and support the ARP position on Scripture? As you know, my answer is, unreservedly, ‘YES!’.

I know there are many who would like to obfuscate my very clear position on this.”

Then, at the end of the article Dr. Norman gives us a glimpse into whether or not he sees this as a ‘newly minted doctrine, since 2008’ when he says:

“Since my conversion as a child, I have never wavered in my belief in absolute biblical authority. I am not sure when I first heard the doctrinal formulation adopted by the ARP synod in 2008, but I know I cited it in writing as my own position as early 1994.”

So, according to Dr. Norman, some are trying to obfuscate his very clear position on Scripture that he has personally held since 1994 (when Dr. Strobel was President at Erskine). I find that to be revealing, and, personally, very encouraging. I hope we all do and that we can ALL support Erskine more and more financially as it pursues its educational purpose and missional goals. I say let’s all show our support of Dr. Norman and of Erskine by clicking the “like” button!

William Crenshaw

Daniel — That is of course nonsense. Who has been trying to obfuscate the president’s position? Show me. Evidence. What you’ll find is that people have been trying not only to CLARIFY the president’s position, because he IS president and what he thinks counts, but also to clarify through that Erskine’s corporate position. It hasn’t been easy to get clarification, but I think we have it now.

But not from anything the president says in his letter to Chuck. That’s all general and abstract, essentially without meaning. You and Janis and, yes, the president have been dancing hard to avoid saying what this idea means for Erskine. I and others have been trying to pin you all down to gets specifics, to examine implications. You have tried to avoid being pinned down because the implications are not only embarrassing but are almost certainly destructive to Erskine. You are rarely specific and concrete. You hide behind the smoke of generalities and accuse others of obfuscation.

And, yes, Mark, I share your concerns. I think most of us do. I hope so. Most of us should be appalled at what has been revealed over the last few weeks on this site, and I find it disturbing that more of us aren’t condemning it.

I might be wrong. Maybe there are only a few of us appalled by what we see. If that’s the way it is, so be it. But if it is not, silence is assent.

We will have people interviewing in a few weeks for a position in the English Department at Erskine. They will ask us, as potential colleagues (not administrators) to tell them what the inerrancy clause in the faculty contract actually means. And now, thanks to the president, I can tell them.

It means that you have to believe in Satan. You have to think that Satan is an “actual person.” You have to avoid trying to understand terms, especially theological terms, because the Evil One will use your pride to hurt Erskine. You have to believe in angels and demons and all that such belief implies and denies. We reject science as it is practiced by the professionals. We have, we will have to say to the candidates, a college president in the 21st Century who says that Satan exists.

Imagine going to an academic conference, as all professors do. For me it would be the Modern Language Association, or, more fun, a medieval group, to hear papers and exchange ideas. It might be a history conference, a biology conference, a psychology conference. Not one sponsored by CCCU but the real professional conferences in whatever field we’re talking about. Now imagine a college president getting up at that conference and warning us not to pursue our studies into our fields too deeply lest Satan use our explorations for his own subversive purposes. What do you think would be the reaction at such a conference? Stunned silence? Guffaws? Incredulity? It certainly would not be a chorus of Amen, My Brother.

We might also consider the intellectual and theological cowardice evinced in an article that tries to spin honest inquiry into, on the one hand, “hyper-definitions” of mere words while on the other insisting those “mere words” be used as a filter on new applicants — a filter that the article refuses to define by hiding behind Satan’s skirts. And this from the leader of an academic community. The mind reels.

There is, as the cliché goes, an elephant in the room. We’re trying to maintain Erskine as a solid college, the one most of you alums graduated from, but the leader of the college is kowtowing to a man who a few years ago was an outcast and is invoking Satanic threats to avoid answering basic questions about the implications of the policy he endorses.

It is beyond embarrassing. Mortifying is too mild a word.

With what has been revealed on this site, do you think we can remain the college you graduated from?

They will destroy the college to save it.

So yes, Mark, I share your concerns. And yes, Daniel, I think the president has clarified his ideas, but not the way you claim he has.

And that clarification can only hurt the college. Satan won’t hurt the college. But our pronounced fear of Satan will. (Editor’s emphasis)

Jay West

Wilson and Wells unite in their support of Norman! Just saying… pass the pepto!

Jay West

As the song says, ” I see your true colors shining through.”

Jay West

‎@Daniel- Let’s be honest. The alumni can provide the resources to make Erskine successful. You and the other saboteurs do not have the means. Make no mistake, the downfallof theinstitution began with your actions.

Daniel Wells

Bill-

So, I take it you are not clicking the “like” button. If not, I understand. We can’t all like the same things or support the same philosophies. That’s why it is good that we have various kinds of schools and freedom to choose to support them or not. We can either get on the train or get off the train, no one is holding a gun to our head either way. But, as Dr. Weatherman used to say, when it comes to Erskine being the evangelical Christian College of the ARP Church…THAT train has left the station. As for me, I click the like button and I still hope we all can.

William Crenshaw

Daniel — I think you’re the only “like” button so far. I think well over a thousand people belong to this group. I think you don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Rusty Biggins

It appears the wind is blowing from left to Right. At least the white flag I am ready to raise is blowing that way.

Janis Cunningham

Bill, your post above is frightening. Your unbelief is written there so clearly for all to see. But I do not believe there are many here who would agree with you, because I think there are those who may disagree with inerrancy who would still say they believe in Satan and angels. Bill, without believing in those things, you deny so much about Christ. You take away His purpose in dying on the cross to save believers from their sins. I am assuming you don’t believe in heaven or hell, because you should be very afraid of dying with the views you hold.

John Randolph Harrison

Bill I think you would be far outnumbered on this site by people who believe in a literal Satan. Don’t think you will get many supporters for those comment either.

William Crenshaw Randy — you maybe right about the number of people on this board who believe in devils and demons and all that such a position implies and reveals. And if you are right, it’s just such a sad commentary on so much.

John Randolph Harrison

I think its sadder that a professor at a Christian college would say in print he doesn’t believe in Satan and angels, especially EC.

Jay West

Why is it that people like you and Weatherman who have no family legacy with Erskine think you have the right to reform her into an institution far from what the patriarchs and matriarchs of her past intended. I am still so amazed that people of your persuasion are still so egotistical. If you did not like Erskine, why attend as a student? Why try to make an ant hill out of a palace?

Daniel Wells

Randy, that was precisely SAFE’s point. We thought it was sad and odd and unfair, given that Erskine was advertised to us as an evangelical Christian school where all the faculty are Christians. All SAFE wanted to do was make sure the Board…

John Randolph Harrison

Jay? Is your position the same as C’s? I don’t that position is even close to the founders of EC.

Jay West

Daniel Wells, you were not telling the TRUTH. You flat out lied! But, you will have to stand before the Lord one day and answer. Good providence!

Jay West

By the way, the denomination can name the board, but we can withhold the funds. I promise you, that if you, McDonald, Wilson, Turbeville, Mulner and the rest of the taliban think we will support your views in the end- YOU ARE SADLY MISTAKEN. I would rather see a humane death than students study under your extremist doctrine!

Janis Cunningham

Jay, this is not about family legacy. It is about a church denomination that has been around over 200 years and is trying to be faithful to God in all it’s ministries. There is no way a Christian college can fulfill it’s mission with unbelievers on the faculty.

John Randolph Harrison

You didn’t answer my question Jay. Is that the kind of Erskine you want?

John Randolph Harrison

C says he doesn’t believe in Satan, angels, literal hell and so on. I didn’t mention anything about talking animals and trees waving and neither did he in this thread. Is that the kind of professors you support? You are just deflecting and trying to change the subject.

Janis Cunningham

Well, thank the Lord for the students who had the courage to speak up. And yes, Daniel, the evidence of the problems is here for all to see.

John Randolph Harrison

I think I would have deleted that thread also Jay.

Jay West

John, what position are you speaking of? I believe in evil and sin, because I experienced it first hand with Wells and the taliban. Actually,it is quite comical to read their statements, knowing the schemes they inacted. I believe in angels. However, I realize that much of the OT was passed down by oral tradition and whether or not there are original transcripts is just time wasted when we could feed the sheep. Jesus did not say, believe in me, inerrancy, animals talking, and trees waving- because it did not matter. I believe the Bible is the word of God, but I also believe in the Holy Spirit. I do not believe that the talibal have been faithful stewards of God’s word. Hope this helps!

Rusty Biggins

I’m with Jay on this. It’s time that all of us who cannot support the new evangelical Erskine need to agree to “walk” and not look back. Not another dollar, child, or grandchild should we ever send to Erskine. If Erskine is going to pursue being an evangelical Christian college, then they will have to do it without us. They will have to do it by getting new students, new faculty and new donors who support their new Mission. The gulf between us and them is too wide to bridge.

Jay West

WAKE UP! It is about family legacy, an Erskine family that has existed for centuries. Without the Erskine family- outside of the ARP, the college would not exist! PERIOD. It is about those of us and our ancestors who have given our resources, time, and love. How would you feel if someone entered your family by marriage and tried to change everything you stand for in life! there is no difference!

Jay West

Be specific. Ask the questions you want me to answer. Unlike Wells and the Taliban- I will stand on what I believe!

John Randolph Harrison

And what do you think C is doing making statements like he did. You think the “ancestors” would support a professor stating such a position.

Jay West

‎@ Daniel- come out and play! Why do you hide when confronted with the truth?

John Randolph Harrison

C says he doesn’t believe in a iiteral Satan, angels or hell? I asked you more than once if you did and if that the kind of professors you support teaching at EC.

Rusty Biggins

JRH- None of us were here when the founders founded Erskine, so you can’t dare pretend to say for sure what they stood for. That is only YOUR interpretation of them, and ours may be different.

Janis Cunningham

JAY!!! Christ’s Church is open to ALL who believe!!! Erskine is a Christian College! This is about the CHURCH and it’s mission to spread the GOSPEL! Your family legacy means nothing, absolutely nothing when it comes to faithfulness to Christ! Think about the rich young ruler, Jay. His good works were not enough to merit Christ’s favor! Your family legacy won’t do it either. When we stand before Christ we will be judged on how we were obedient to what the scriptures teach. And that obedience is out of a great love for the Lord which is given to us through faith. Do not keep minimizing the Truth of scripture, Jay. It is a battle worth fighting for!!!

Jay West

I do not know. I do know that Bill Crsnshaw is a professional who understands how to prod students and readers to contemplate what they think and believe. I think Bill is a Christian- though it is not my job to judge Bill. I have watched, worked and studied under him for years. Bill is a tremendous professor with incredible gifts. It is interesting to me that the Taliban blames the professors and adminstration for what the students learn, yet they do not accept that many of them did not do their job as pastors with their youth. Did they take them to feed the sheep, clothe the homeless, minister to the elderly? Do you think they would call parents into question?

John Randolph Harrison

Rusty they stood for the WCF. Jay what is it you do not know? If there is a literal Satan? If there are angels? And you were the Chaplain of a Christian college?

Jay West

Spoken like a true PHARISEE!

Rusty Biggins

Yep, and NAZIS too!

John Randolph Harrison

Thats what people do when they get frustrated is call people names.

Jay West

JANIS, What is so hard to understand? No one is deminishing Scripture. Are you telling me that all of the people that attended Erskine for centuries should have no say in her direction- WHEN THEY PAY THE BILLS? Answer please. Simply- yes or no. Do you understand that virtually every building on that campus was paid for by either an alumni or friend? Do you not understand tha the endowment is funded year after year by the alumni? Are you saying that all of the other alumni from other Christian denominations don’t matter? Not very reformed if you believe in the universal body of Christ. Your point is clear- now you have some power and screw us! Not gonna happen. FOR THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO BE JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW HAVE BEEN ALIENATED FROM CHRIST- THEY HAVE FALLEN AWAY FROM GRACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Janis Cunningham

Rusty, interesting that you would bring that up, because I have a quote handy from the founders of the denomination: Associate Reformed Synod at Greencastle, May 31st,1799:

“Agreeably hereunto, the terms on which any person or
persons shall be admitted as a member or members of this
church, are,—a profession of faith in the Holy scriptures of
the old and new Testaments, as the perfect and only rule
of faith and practice: together with an approbation of the
Confession of faith, Larger and shorter Catechisms, form of
Church government, and Directories for Worship, as therein
received; a holy life and conversation, and subjection to the
order and Discipline of the Church.”

Jay West

NOT NAMES- I BELIEVE THAT THE TOS IS THE MODERN DAY PHARISAIC GROUP OF OUR TIME! I am being very serious!

John Randolph Harrison

And what are those who don’t believe in Satan, angels and hell? Believers? I believe the people that gave that money would be appaled at statements like that from professors.

Jay West

John, Is hell a literal place? Is it separation from God?

John Randolph Harrison

Don’t know do you. But at least I believe it exist. I answered your question. Do you believe in Satan as a literal person and that professors who don’t believe in him or angels should teach at EC. Its a simple question Jay.

Jay West

JANIS, they were speaking of members a church, and we are speaking of an institution of higher learning. maybe there is a little difference. Just saying…

Janis Cunningham

Jay, those who are faithful Christians will be HAPPY to see Christian professors and will be delighted to send their children there! I’ll remind you that the hiring conditions say the new faculty must be evangelical Christians, not ARP. Bu…See

Jay West

John, the Bible doesn’t state that Satan was an actual person!!!!

Jay West

More like a fallen angel

John Randolph Harrison

I have asked you the same question at least 5 times Jay. You have answered with questions and name calling. Going to bed since you aren’t go to give a straight answer.

John Randolph Harrison

Well if thats your answer Jay. What about professors that don’t believe in angels. Should they teach at EC when they ourwardly profess otherwise.

Jay West

I am only contesting your definition of evangelical, which is not evangelical, but Pharisaic. I would agree more with Jim Walls- you should read “The Politics of God.” Who said you and the others get to define evangelical? Even the ARP’s definition is much different that what it was 30 years ago.

Rusty Biggins

Janis, are you suggesting that the early ARP’s, even before the founding of Erskine, promoted “inerrancy” and “church discipline” in the same way it has been talked about in the past year? You can’t be serious. Have you not read any of the ARP family history that has been laid out on this site by long time ARP’s, whose distant ancestors have direct connections to those founders? I’d suggest you put your book down and go back and read the previous posts if you want to know the history.

Jay West

I think I would be more concerned if they believed in Jesus. Is believing in angels a precursor to faith? NO. However, the college is where those debates should take place without the fear of losing one’s job.

Janis Cunningham

Jay, don’t play games. We both know what evangelical means. I am sick of hearing the redefining of words. The ARP was off track 30 years ago and by the grace of God, it is getting back to being a faithful church.

John Randolph Harrison

No Satan no reason for Jesus death on the cross. Not sure he if he even even believes in Jesus and the resurection since he avoids the question and knows its a deal breaker.

Jay West

Janis, is all seriousness, read chapter 3 of Galatians: those who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ, they have fallen away from grace. That is precisely what is happening here.your focus is on the law and not on Christ. we miss the generosity of his grace when we venture into a performance based faith.

Jay West

Janis, who says the ARP was off track 30 years ago? Do you get to make tat determination? Historically, has the church ever been wrong and outside of God’s will? YES. this is one of those times!

Jay West

JANIS, one final question for you. Do you believe that God honors people who lie and scheme? simply, does the end justify the means?

Janis Cunningham

Jay, you are sooo wrong! How can we disciple young men and women to live out their faith and live for the glory of God when professors are mocking their faith in the classroom at a so-called Christian college?! Bill has said tonight that he is basically embarrassed to have a Christian president of the college! You have this backwards, Jay. Those who love the Lord seek to obey His commands. It is out of the greatest love that the ARP wants to make Erskine a God-honoring institution!

Janis Cunningham

Jay, if anyone is into performance-based faith, it is you and some others who post here. You brag about your family legacy and gifts to the college and the buildings your money has built. Do you think that gains God’s favor??? Really???

Jay West

The ARP wants to make Erskine a law honoring intitution. And I am sooo right! To debate is fruitless. Are you really reformed? Do you believe in the power of the Holy Spirit? Do you believe in the universal body of Christ? Do you think that all Christians believe exactly the same things? If those pastors are doing such a wonderful job in their churches, what are they worried about- students developing their own faith aside from a parental faith. I can only say what I say with the grace of Christ because I have experienced the generosity of His grace. As well, I have seen first hand what ultra conservative parents do to the psche of their children. GRACE is real. You do not have to force feed it to them. Let them wrestle with it and grow!

Jay West

Wait! I am perplexed. Who gets to decide what a God- honoring institution looks like? as we have discussed and you have admitted, the ARP has changed in the past 30 years. How do you know you are right?

Jay West

Well, if we gave it to gain his favor, but we don’t. We give becuase we believe in all of the people who make up thepersonality of the institution- Lesesnes, Griers, Logans, Wolleys, Gastons, Agnews, Fergusons, and on and on. The mistake you make is assuming that ERskine is a place- it is more. It is the people, and you can;t replace that no matter how hard you try.

Janis Cunningham

As a parent, I can send my kids to public universities and expect that they will have agnostic and atheist professors and pray a lot that their faith will be strong in the face of mocking. But I should also have the choice to send my children to a Christian college where Christ will be exalted and my children taught through a Christian worldview. It is inexcusable that kids have had their faith mocked at Erskine. I think it is disgusting.

Jay West

12:50 and still going strong!

What about the students and a few faculty members that have used their faith to lie and tear out the heart of the institution? You can not have it both ways! Do you condem their behavior as well?

Jay West

That is disgusting as well!

Jay West

Have you not noticed that Daniel Wells disappeared from the thread? Every time he has to face the truth- he crawls under a rock! That is disgusting and cowardly!

Janis Cunningham

Jay, it is 12:50 and I imagine Daniel and even Bill have simply gone to bed. I’m on my way, too. Nite.


 

Third Thread

Jay West

In a response to Chuck Wilson’s open letter to David Norman concerning his view of inerrancy, Wilson implies that Norman leaves the reader with a politically, ambiguous answer. Below are excerpts of their conversation that cause me great consternation.

Let me state that due to my love of Erskine and my intuition that alumni will begin to withhold funds, I searched for ways to embrace Norman and his presidency. I even met with Norman and then Chairman Scott Mitchell and offered to help raise funds if he would listen to the voice of the alumni.

BUT… I am displeased to come to the realization that Chuck evidently has influence with Norman. In short, THIS IS SCARY!

Norman writes,

“I know you read it because you wrote me afterwards saying:“In my 40 plus years in General Synod, you are the first Erskine president who has openly and boldly said that he was going to stand by and with the directives of the ARP Church.”

I think a lot of you, Chuck, and I know that your commitment to the Word of God is very high.

Wilson responds,

“Thank you for your “Yes.” That clears the air.

You memory is almost as bad as mine. I sent a check.

We are brothers. Brothers can always discuss subtleties in theology. That’s fun.”

Why would Chuck wilson send a check if he did not approve of the direction Norman is taking the college? I rest my case!

Mary Lou Holmes

In 200 years of Erskine and ARP Church history this is not the first time this has happened. Wilson is not the beginning of history and he won’t be the end. Presidents always get checks from supporters. The interests of the ARP Church and Erskine SHOULD be one and the same. To the extent that they are not, that is the fault of Wilson and other divisive newcomers who have been driving a wedge between themselves and the traditional ARP Church with their fighting words and self-righteousness. Now that we know their aim is to take over the ARP Church and purge all the traditional ARPs, we can do something about it. The leadership of the ARP Church is only there to serve the members. If the leaders don’t serve the congregations, then the sessions of each church can replace them. It is time for that to happen. Self-described “rabid idealogues” need to be removed from leadership positions in the ARP Church before they shrink the church and cause it to become unrecognizable as a Christian church.

Just as the government of the United States must represent the people, the leadership of the ARP Church must represent the members. When Andy Ward takes a position that is diametrically opposed to the Session of the Pinecrest Church we have to wonder how the leadership is representing the members.

Mary Lou Holmes

What reasons did Dr. Norman give for denying tenure to Jay Herring?

Carey Whitman

Norman knows that TOS will be displeased with him if he gives tenure (i.e. job security) to someone they want to see defrocked and fired. And Norman is scared of TOS. So he makes decisions that will keep himself on their good side rather than on what is right.

Mary Lou Holmes

What reasons did he give? Did he just say “no” and slam his door?

Carey Whitman

Norman gave no substance to back up his decision. Here are the facts:

  1. A 4 person committee reviewed and approved J’s application for tenure. (interim VP Dr. Lowe and Dr. Melton among the 4).
  2. The academic dean signed off.
  3. VP (Dr. Gaston at the time) signed off
  4. Norman says “no” and slams the door.

Of course, this has implications which reveal what Norman thinks of his staff. At the very least his capricious rejection suggests undue influence. Consider how quickly he responds to Wilson. Wilson calls him out on inerrancy, and, even though Norman had already written 3 articles, he responds in less than 24 hrs. He had nothing new to add but he doesn’t want Wilson and co.to think that he doesn’t jump at their beck and call.

Norman fancies himself as a independent thinker. But I think it’s clear that he is afraid to do anything, even granting well-earned tenure, if TOS will not approve.

Mary Lou Holmes

Let’s make our voices heard. Let’s send our contributions to Erskine College Foundation with the stipulation that the money be withheld unless and until Dr. Hering is granted tenure.

 

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  1. Daniel Stephens says:

    Chuck, Thanks for posting this where everyone can see it.

    There are a lot of things that can be said, but one comment in particular struck me:

    “Rusty Biggins
    I’m with Jay on this. It’s time that all of us who cannot support the new evangelical Erskine need to agree to “walk” and not look back. Not another dollar, child, or grandchild should we ever send to Erskine. If Erskine is going to pursue being an evangelical Christian college, then they will have to do it without us. They will have to do it by getting new students, new faculty and new donors who support their new Mission. The gulf between us and them is too wide to bridge.”

    I disagree with the stance, but I respect the integrity. I think a lot of this mess could have been avoided if this sort of integrity had been present.

     
  2. James says:

    Two things stick out to me:

    1. Mrs. Mary Lou Holmes’ comment: “‘Mere words’ are still ‘mere words’ according to Dr. Norman. God’s words are still God’s words. ‘inerrancy’ sorry to say is not one of God’s words. No matter how precious to Wilson. No matter how he’s fought for 40 years to get it into the ARP vocabulary. It is still a newly minted doctrine of man.”

    One word has the power to defeat everything she just said: ‘Trinity’. Did Nicaea and Constantinople mean nothing?! Or is the doctrine’s age enough to qualify it as truth? Or, and most importantly, does Mrs. Holmes not, actually, believe in the trinity? Surely it cannot be the last, for I do not wish to qualify Mrs. Holmes in the Matthew 7:15 category. While, yes, trinity isn’t explicitly mentioned in Scripture it does not mean the meat of the doctrine is not found within Scripture. Not explicit, Mrs. Holmes, we are agreed. But implicitly? Scripture must speak for itself, not you for it.

    2. Mr. Jay West’s insistence that his ‘family heritage’ means something. I would love to point Mr. West towards Paul’s words in Philippians:

    “2Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. 3For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh— 4 though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless. 7But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ.”

    Not only does Paul toss aside *his* family heritage (“…of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews…”), he tosses his whole ethnicity down the tube for Christ, for the truth of the Gospel! If Paul was so willing to claim he is the least of all the saints (Eph. 3), as well as the chief of sinners (1 Tim. 1) and cast away his family, my question is thus:

    Why is it so hard for some ARP families to?

     
  3. Dean Turbeville says:

    Men like Dr. Crenshaw are a perfect picture of the things they most despise. He despises obsequious deference to orthodox authority, but he finds himself unable to question any of the doctrines of “professional scientists,” even though in the more speculative fields of science, like cosmology, the scientific orthodoxies are routinely overturned by the scientists themselves.

    He thinks of those who hold to revealed religion as unimaginative and narrow-minded. Yet when faced with the doctrine of angels and Satan, he cannot imagine a creation so richly textured as to have both visible and invisible (to us) dimensions, with intelligences not his own, and with the moral complexities which attend such a view.

    He prides himself on his tolerance of others, but he develops a rash when around any Christians students with a well-formed biblical worldview.

    Dr. Crenshaw lives in a very “flat” and restricted world, and he wants to condemn us all to that world, in the name of his “academic freedom,” which is not freedom at all, but only the slavery of conventiional secularist thinking.

    That the Erskine faculty voted this man Teacher of the Year should tell you all you need to know about how poorly the Synod has done in appointing trustees to the college in years past.

    God forgive us.

     
  4. Reformed Rebel says:

    Regarding a statement by Jay West:

    Jay West

    Why is it that people like you and Weatherman who have no family legacy with Erskine think you have the right to reform her into an institution far from what the patriarchs and matriarchs of her past intended. I am still so amazed that people of your persuasion are still so egotistical. If you did not like Erskine, why attend as a student? Why try to make an ant hill out of a palace?

    Pastor Turbeville, that statement is precisely why I said last week when we spoke that I believe that the greatest heresy in the ARP is ancestor worship. That statement would fit right in at the Shinto shrines in Japan – contra the adminstrator of this fine blog, Dr. Wilson, it isn’t a Baal-cult in operation at Erskine, but rather an Ancestor-cult.

    Regarding Mary Lou Holmes:

    Mary Lou Holmes

    ‎”Mere words” are still “mere words” according to Dr. Norman. God’s words are still God’s words. “inerrancy” sorry to say is not one of God’s words. No matter how precious to Wilson. No matter how he’s fought for 40 years to get it into the ARP vocabulary. It is still a newly minted doctrine of man.

    Ms. Holmes, it is easy to make those assertions surrounded by your “buddies” over on Facebook; I’ve challenged you in the comment thread on the post “Understanding the ARP Church and It’s Relation to Erskine” to rationally defend your baseless assertions regarding inerrancy being “a newly minted doctrine of man”. Or you’re welcome to continue blathering away with the fellow members of the Ancestor-cult.

     
  5. Dear “Rebel,”

    “Ancestor-worship” – I like that. It’s better than “Baal cult” or whatever I wrote.

    I have e-mailed both Ms. Holmes and Dr. West that there are comments on ARPTalk that are addressed to them. I have given them permission and encouraged them to respond to these comments.

    Regards,

    Chuck Wilson
    Editor, ARPTalk

     
  6. Brandon Oberle Impersonator (see comments below) says:

    The ARP should become evangelical by evangelizing, not forcibly indoctrinating a religion of words. Maybe then will they actually grow for a change.

    Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of Inerrancy and John Calvin and of the ARP Church, and forcing them to accept everything the Westminster Confession has commanded you. And surely it will be with you always, to the very end of the age.

     
    • Hey Brandon!

      A bit of clarification: the act of evangelism (sharing the Gospel / winning the lost for Jesus) is not the same as an institution being evangelical.

      To quote the reference from Wikipedia:

      Evangelicalism is a Protestant Christian movement which began in Great Britain in the 1730s. Its key commitments are:
      – The need for personal conversion (or being “born again”)
      – Actively expressing and sharing the gospel
      – A high regard for biblical authority, especially biblical inerranc
      – An emphasis on teachings that proclaim the saving death of the Son of God, Jesus Christ.

      David Bebbington has termed these four distinctive aspects conversionism, activism, biblicism, and crucicentrism, noting, “Together they form a quadrilateral of priorities that is the basis of Evangelicalism.”

      So, the ARP, Erskine, and other like institutions are not to attempt to define themselves as “evangelical” by limiting the definition to “come to Jesus” but of a comprehensive set of standards and beliefs – of which evangelism is indeed a part.

      To address your concern of “indoctrinating a religion of words” I want to ask, where do you find your religion? Happy feelings? The warmth of Hot cocoa? By this question I do not want to appear crass, but to clarify. Christianity is indeed a religion of Words: we have The Word who came to us, gave us His Word to live by, and we spread the Good News of Jesus Christ by passing these words to others. We are the only religion who has the Word of God – nobody else does… wow!

      Indeed, we attempt to clarify some of these words through confessions, creeds, and “words of man” as some try to denigrate (trinity, inerrancy) but as people who speak language we use words to help clarify words, for even the apostle Peter said of his colleague Paul that some of his words were indeed hard to understand.

      Fellow pilgrim, I pray in your future, rather than using words like your last statement, taking our Saviors’ final and greatest edict and twisting it for a form of self-edifying smugness, that you will take the Lord’s advice in Romans 14:19 – “Let us pursue what makes for peace and mutual upbuilding.”

      Be well,

      -Anthony

       
    • Daniel Stephens says:

      I’m a member of an ARP church that does door-to-door evangelism weekly (weather permitting) and does other outreach efforts and mercy ministry. I believe the scriptures are God’s Word in written form and are consequently inerrant in the original manuscripts. In fact, if I didn’t believe this, I wouldn’t be doing evangelism.

       
    • Reformed Rebel says:

      Brandon,

      Is Christ’s command to “go therefore making disciples of all nations” part of an errant Bible? If so, how do you know that the command to “go therefore, making disciples of all nations” isn’t a textual error? Perhaps what Christ really said was something else entirely!

      Without inerrancy, you don’t have a leg to stand on in this conversation. Without inerrancy, you stand over the text (not humbly standing under it) judging it (not allowing it to judge you). That makes you the sole arbiter of the truth…and I guess that must feel pretty good, huh?

      Furthermore, no one here is holding a Glock 19 to anyone’s head, telling them if they don’t believe in inerrancy they’re going to pull the trigger! No one has been threatened for their position on inerrancy. The ARP Synod has made a statement about what the Synod believes regarding the authority of Scripture. That’s it. All you’re proven by your statement is that the theological liberals are only “tolerant” when they’re in charge.

      There is a simple solution, though. If you don’t like the Synod’s decision, there’s plenty of room in the PCUSA.

       
  7. Dear Brandon,

    The following are “mere words”: “Jesus said, ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me.’”

    By what authority do you believe those “mere words” of Jesus to be true? Without those “mere words,” there is no evangelism. Christianity is a religion of words because we are the only religion that has the Word.

    Regards,

    Chuck Wilson
    Editor, ARPTalk

     
  8. Brandon Kai Oberle says:

    This is the real Brandon Kai Oberle. The first post by “Brandon Oberle” is not me. I do not in any way condone the actions of the individual who has hijacked my identity. Again, the post by “Brandon Oberle” is not the actual Brandon Kai Oberle. This was an attempt to twist my identity and cause general confusion.
    Furthermore, I do not care to comment on this issue.
    Brandon Kai Oberle
    God Bless and keep you all

     
  9. Dear Readers of ARPTalk,

    I have just spoken with Mr. Brandon Oberle via phone. The first comments with his name are not the comments of Mr. Brandon Oberle. Someone has posted comments using his name. The comments by Mr. Brandon Oberle on April 4, at 10:42 AM are NOT by Mr. Brandon Oberle.

    We are not sure how this occured. We apologize to Mr. Oberle.

    The FALSE comments will not be removed; however, a link to Mr. Oberle actual comments will be added and a statement that the comments are not Mr. Oberle’s will also be added. Once comments are approved, it is not the policy of ARPTalk to removed or edit comments.

    Regards,

    Chuck Wilson
    Editor, ARPTalk

     
  10. Reformed Rebel says:

    Brandon –

    I am terribly sorry that some one has hijacked your identity! It is a cowardly act – one that is a low, underhanded thing to do. Certainly someone desires to smear your good name.

    Please, don’t let this reality be a burden to you; if anything, see it as a case of what was so ably described by a hymn writer who said that “behind a frowning providence / He hides a smiling face”. I often find myself wishing that our theology lived up to our hymnody! Whatever situation you find yourself in today, Brandon, I would encourage you to remember that there is sufficient grace for the day’s troubles, and that our wise God and King acts for His own glory.

    I’m praying for you, Brandon. May you taste and see that the LORD indeed is good!

    RR.

     
  11. Anthony says:

    Indeed, a cowardly act… throwing stones through the veil of anonymity does not bring anything to the cause except the reinforcement of the base understanding that the enemy will gladly attack a man making an argument, without debating the substance of the argument, while not being accountable to defend their argument.

    Be well, Brandon.